Lawyers worried

JULIA Gillard’s new offshore processing regime has effectively locked asylum-seekers out of Australian court appeals, legal experts declared yesterday, as four boats arrived in 24 hours in a rush to beat the new laws.
Human rights lawyers said the new offshore processing regime had stripped back the capacity for judicial review of government decisions and eliminated many of the grounds for legal challenges by boatpeople.
I’m of the opinion that they only people entitled to legal aid are Australians so I really don’t care if some lawyers used to being on the human rights boatpeople gravy train are worried about their income streams.


  • “Julia Gillard’s new offshore processing regime has effectively locked asylum-seekers out of Australian court appeals, legal experts declared yesterday”

    They say it like its a bad thing.

  • John Van Krimpen

    An interesting opinion

    Piers talks about building a bridge, bit of a pun there.

    The cock up excuse is not working, I don’t think they wanted a solution, (Gillard and Co) I am reminded of Gillard’s office and their theatrics on Australia day trying to fit Abbott up on Indigneous issues verballing him.

    They verbal everyone. All they know.

    • Piers is spot on with all his comments. I just don’t think the ALP want to fix the problem or they would’ve taken on all of Houston’s recommendations – they just want the problem to go off the radar. I forecast the problem will still be with us during the election.

  • There are some issues in Australian politics that invite disaster unless there is a bi-partisan approach.

    Amongst these, I would list national policy on disabilities, climate change and asylum seekers. There are others, but a quick glance at our history will reveal the absolute tragedy that follows the taking of adversarial positions on these three.

    The best example of what follows when this principle is ignored comes from recent history, specifically our involvement in Vietnam.

    The consequences of the fear, hate and bitterness generated during that conflict continue to be visited on Vietnam veterans, and often on their families. If you doubt this, check the statistics.

    Pandering to fear and loathing in the electorate works, but it creates victims. For the purpose of this exercise, let\’s use the military term \”collateral\”. In the case of Vietnam, returning soldiers became the collateral. Considering refugee policy, \”collateral\” are the asylum seekers.

    Most recently, we have the spectacle of the unfortunates turning up after the legislation went through this week, being exiled (like colonies of Robinson Crusoes) in godforsaken outposts in the Pacific.

    When John Howard let the genie out of the bottle back in 2001, I doubt he understood the monster he was creating. That genie, fed on xenophobia, racism, and gut fear, has overwhelmed rational discourse, and risks poisoning our value system for generations.

    Again, paralleling the adversarial tone set up around Vietnam, we saw fear (the Communist hordes from the North), used effectively to wedge the opposition. This worked for a while, but inevitably, when it ceased to work, the community turned on the diggers.

    Victims were created – generally all diggers, but particularly the conscripts who had no choice. These days the victims are the asylum seekers, whose choices are also limited. At least conscripts not found to be conscientious objectors knew how long they’d be behind bars. Refugees will be denied this certainty.

    We see absurdity used to justify extremity – back then random twenty year olds conscripted to kill and be killed – these days children locked up behind razor wire.

    The saddest aspect of all is the hypocrisy shown on all sides of politics. The most recent legislation is justified by the Coalition as a method of saving lives. The under song has nothing to do with saving lives, and everything to do with harnessing the latent xenophobia which has been part of our national psyche since the anti-Chinese riots at Lambing Flats.

    They make cynical use of this national ugliness, at the same time dressing it up as compassion. A quick reading of the blogosphere reveals this undercurrent.

    Labor has capitulated because they have been wedged. Humanitarian Principles have vanished overnight. Expediency is dressed up as compassion. The expert committee was a device to outsource moral responsibility. It worked a treat.

    There is and always has been a “solution” – although using this word brings us into the company of the notables who espoused the “Jewish solution”. John Howard had no qualms about reintroducing the term into our national vocabulary. This puts him in interesting company.

    The successful template I refer to was written during the time of the resettlement of hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese boat people. It would take a decade or more – would cost a great deal – would involve some heart searching in terms of our relationships with our neighbours to our North, but it is possible.

    It worked back then, because the approach in this country was bi-partisan. The xenophobia was always there, but it was never harnessed. Back then, we had leaders with backbone.

    It won’t happen in 2012, because we are governed by cowards and opportunists on both sides of politics.

    Howard’s monster will endure. The collateral damage will last for decades.

    He discovered this when his comments about the Chinese had him booted out of Bennelong. Xenophobia used in politics will always come back to bite. It may take years, decades perhaps, but it will happen.

    Ask a Vietnam veteran.

    • Jesus 17, you’ve provided a target rich post with this.

      Let’s start – I presume you are aware that there is bi-partisan agreement on the Disability scheme but Gillard only raised the issue now to get some positive press. The fact that she didn’t cost it and has tried to get the states to cough up says it all. Typically, a good ALP idea except they have spent all the money in the kitty on rubbish and/or other costs associated with the law of unintended circumstances that always seams to bite the ALP in the arse.

      The fear, hate and bitterness that you mentioned was generated by the Left, the supporters of communism, so your point is somewhat lost.

      Pandering to fear No one is pandering to fear. All the talk I hear is of open borders and the better life with generous handouts boat people taking us for a ride. You might have missed the point but most are aware that once upon a time our borders were secure and entry to the country was by orderly means by real refugees who came armed with ID, passports and a history of real persecution.

      And then it all fell to shit. The ALP and the Greens got some power and now we have them sailing 50ks from Indonesia and calling up the RAN to come fetch. The sailors from the latest ‘RAN Roadside Service pickup” were amazed when they took all the ‘better life style and generous handouts’ mob off the “sinking’ boat that it then just turned away and sailed back to Indonesia. Presumably to pick up another boat load load of them.

      How can you possibly support this bullshit?

      Most recently, we have the spectacle of the unfortunates turning up after the legislation went through this week, being exiled (like colonies of Robinson Crusoes) in godforsaken outposts in the Pacific.

      Not exiled – they were never citizens. Not godforsaken outposts but a tropical island with food, shelter and medical facilities far better than they say they had at home and certainly far better that the standard crowded UN Refugee centre.

      The biggest problem with settlement of the Vietnamese was the Left wing Whitlam. Remember he wasn’t going to let in “those fucking Balts” Remember also that the Vietnamese were escaping the communist hordes that you imagine was an invention of us Right wing fanatics. Tell that to the Vietnamese who didn’t escape the communists – those that are still alive, or can talk.

      Howard’s monster will endure. It didn’t endure. Remember Gillard and Rudd went on and on about the evils of the Pacific solution and now they have been hit with a reality stick and are forced to admit that their dismantling has cost hundreds of lives and billions of dollars. That’s your collateral damage – not Howard’s ‘monster’ at all.

      …comments about the Chinese had him booted out of Bennelong. He lost the election because people were bored – it had nothing whatsoever to do with the Chinese. The country was running so well, the voters thought, that anyone can do it – we’ll give the new bloke a go. Biggest mistake since giving Whitlam the keys to the treasury. The ACTU also had a lot to do with Rudd’s victory by spending 20 odd million dollars telling lies about Work Choices and frightening the not so well read.

      Worked a treat, didn’t it?

    • Hmmm, national policy on disabilities, hardly a disaster if it doesn’t happen – tragic for the disabled, but not a disaster for the nation. regardless there is bi-partisan agreement on having one, it still won’t happen (beyond being announced) because some idiots pissed away all the money we had.

      Climate change, not a disaster, even if you are gullible enough to swallow the AGW line, the fact is, if all CO2 generation in Aust ceased immediately, what little effect it might have on global temps would be lost in the statistical noise, so only a total bedwetter would consider a lack of agreement in Australia to be a ‘disaster’.

      “asylum seekers” or as the sensible call them illegal economic migrants, it is hard to see your complaint, after 5 years of not agreeing with reality, the conspicuous compassion side of politics is moving towards bi-partisan agreement with the opposition – just turn back a few boats and introduce TPVs and we are there.

      It just had to come back to Vietnam, didn’t it?

      Lets address what you are really whining about – you want bi-partisan agreement, but you want your side of politics to define what that agreement should be, it seems to me that you might be happier living in North Korea or Cuba, where the Govt can define what the people will agree with (however, given the ALP/Greens approach to the media, you might just get that here if you are lucky).

      Here is a challenge Phone number, you want bi-partisan agreement, fine, support the Coalition platform lock, stock and barrel – no hedging, no quibbling and there you are, you’ve taken the first step to bi-partisan agreement, then you just have to convince the rest of your side of politics to follow suit. it’s a perfectly reasonable solution to your problem.

    • “specifically our involvement in Vietnam”

      Oh fuck off you boring lecturing twat.

    • 1735099…..suggested changes to blog descriptor…..
      Apoplectic rantings of a disenchanted non-concientious objector.

  • I’m almost tired of disliking Toowoomba resident one seven three five zero nine nine and his pandering to the socialist idea of utopia. In the short time I’ve been reading on this blog and one produced by him, the one sure thing I have learned is that if I went looking under my gran’s bed for the porcelain I would be sure to bump into 1735099 the number issued to a promising infanteer who turned out to be a real watermelon whose idea of being open minded excludes all other opinions and ideas than thos of rosy socialist origin.

  • I like it when little Bobby shifts back and makes us the victims again in his little analogies…What you keep forgetting little Bobby is that those who made us the victims were all red card carrying members like RED JIM Cairns and his misbeggotten mob, and those disgusting little bastards from the universities that raised money for Uncle Ho, the same breed that you now so fervently support. Why is it that some of you bloody militant schoolteachers think you have all the answers to everything???

    • Roly there’s an old adage… can tell a teacher but you can’t tell a teacher. Add to that; brought up as a lefty but attempts to camoflage it by voting Green, didn’t like the offer of a free trip deep into the bowels of Asia but took it regardless and has whinged about his dissatisfaction ever since.

  • didn’t he get the free chopsticks??

  • 1735099 should read his own blog under Time for Honesty comments. There’s bit of reading he appears to have overlooked about crime statistics by ethnic groups. His favorite group and their descendants figure very highly in the comparative statistics. Perhaps more should be done sorting through the backgrounds of those seeking aylum and some consideration given to the effects of years of war on the ability of those affected to integrate into society as we know it. I’m starting to sound like I’m talking about war veterans requiring assistance getting back into the mainstream. That Greek Mr. Anonymous doesn’t seem to believe the system to integrate Vietnames refugees into Australian society was as successful as 1735099 does.

  • “1735099 should read his own blog…..”

    Strange that you should post this here.

    You’ve come off second best on my blog, so now you’re having another go.

    Perhaps you should read your own cited sources. From the abstract of Mukherjee’s study –

    “There is evidence of some bias against minority groups in their contacts
    with criminal justice system. For example, in decisions such as caution or
    prosecution, social background factors, particularly family stability, play a
    very important role. Suspects from minority groups often come from
    “unstable” families, making a caution decision difficult. This situation can
    influence decisions at subsequent stages of the criminal justice system”.


    “Arrest/offenders processed statistics from Victoria for the five year period
    1993-94 to 1997-98 display the following patterns:
    The overall arrest rate of alleged offenders from no migrant group display a
    consistently rising trend over the five year period. However, alleged
    offenders born in the Russian Federation, Romania, Vietnam, Former
    Yugoslavia, New Zealand, Turkey, and Lebanon were processed at a higher
    rate than the Australian-born in each of the five years. The 1997-98
    statistics produce high alleged offender rates for those born in Somalia,
    Uruguay, and Thailand.
    Generally, the largest proportion of alleged offenders born in Australia and
    overseas, with the exception of those born in Cambodia, was processed for
    property offences. In 1997-98 this proportion ranged between a low of 34.1.”

    So Vietnamese had a higher incarceration rate between 1993 and 1998 in Victoria, along with seven other ethnic groups? How this proves that the migration of 137,000 was somehow a disaster is beyond me. Perhaps you can explain.

    BTW – Thanks for endorsing my blog. Helps explain perhaps the steady increase in hits over the last few months, and syndication of some of my opinion pieces. Onwards and upwards….

  • The only response to my post with any substance is Kev’s.
    The rest are the usual sycophantic abuse.
    “Gillard only raised the issue now….
    In the 42 years I’ve worked in this field, the only governments that have acted to improve the lot of people with disabilities have been Labor governments. This was as true between 1972 and 1975 as it is now. Back in the Whitlam era, human rights legislation was passed that has improved their quality of life immeasurably. Years of Coalition governments federally and locally led to institutions such as Goodna – see –
    Whitlam’s legislation made these hell holes untenable. Sad fact is that the Coalition were shamed into it. Newman won’t play ball of course – he’s too busy sacking public servants.
    “The fear, hate and bitterness that you mentioned was generated by the Left…”
    Go back a little further to the culture established by Menzies, and passed on through Santamaria (Abbott’s inspiration). Menzies tried to ban the Communist party, but the Australian people had the good sense to reject this at referendum in 1951. The vitriol and hate created at this time lingered for decades and was used by the Coalition to justify intervention in South East Asia.
    “once upon a time our borders were secure”
    Unless I was asleep during Social Studies in primary school at Carmila, we have a coastline – we don’t have borders. This “border security” discourse has been lifted from the Yank media as it refers to Hispanic immigration. It is misapplied here.
    “How can you possibly support this bullshit?”
    You’re right – it’s impossible to support. It’s a confected issue, in exactly the same way as the Red Menace was. We are not being “invaded”. Our refugee intake is miniscule compared to that of the USA and many European states.
    See –
    “The biggest problem with settlement of the Vietnamese was the Left wing Whitlam.”
    137000 Vietnamese were settled here through a combination of orderly offshore processing and regional agreements. It was possible (despite Whitlam’s alleged objections,) because it was never used as a political wedge.
    “Remember also that the Vietnamese were escaping the communist hordes”
    So it makes a difference what you’re escaping from? I can’t see the logic there. It’s probably revealing in that some seem to believe you’re a goodie if your escaping the baddies, and a baddie if you’re escaping the goodies.
    When this country was first settled, we were all baddies – convicted criminals.
    “their dismantling has cost hundreds of lives and billions of dollars”
    Conveniently forgetting, for example that hundreds drowned on SEIVX. That was on Howard’s watch. The bleating about drownings is as confected as everything else around this issue.
    “Worked a treat, didn’t it?”
    Some things did. Some examples – Every bush school I visit is wheelchair accessible thanks to BER. Toowoomba has fast internet through NBN, we have one of the most robust economies in the developed world, and our unemployment rate is low.
    The issue is the cynical use of fear and hate. I’ll call it every time I see it, whichever side of politics it comes from.

  • Toowoomba has fast internet through NBN

    Where? There’s a NBN wireless service in South Toowoomba. So what?

    I’m sure we’ll eventually get fibre but at $40M I’m quite happy with the service I’ve got.

  • “Where?”
    Fibre Work planned to begin in Jan 2012 in East Toowoomba, South Toowoomba, and Toowoomba City.
    Fibre Work to commence within one year at Centenary Heights, Darling Heights, East Toowoomba, Harristown, Kearneys Spring, Middle Ridge, Rangeville, Redwood, South Toowoomba, and Withcott.
    Work actually commenced in Sep 2011 in phases with the last work scheduled to commence in Sep 2013.

  • So Toowoomba doesn’t have fast broadband except by the wireless service, in contrast to your original claim, and even that doesn’t cover most of Toowoomba. Good that we’ve cleared that up.

  • The rollout is well underway as indicated above. Much of the CBD is already linked. We should have it here (Rangeville) well before this time next year.
    What’s your problem – sour grapes?

    • I don’t know what John Mc’s problem is but mine are;
      uncosted and increasing in billion dollar lumps,
      no business case made public,
      no apparent consideration for exponential development in wireless,
      Conroy and Rudd were involved
      People presume the debate is about NBN or nothing – ie, NBN/ALP smart – No NBN/Libs dumb. Not the case at all. There are a lot of potential plans that would benefit the country communications networks starting at several billion and going onto the ALP’s 30,40 or 50 billion.

      • “the ALP’s 30,40 or 50 billion.” if only it was that little. credible industry commentators have stated that they believe it will cost about $80 billion and that figure was based on a competent rollout, not one run by this clownocratic ineptocracy.

  • “You’ve come off second best on my blog, so now you’re having another go”
    Bob this is Bob…..It is pretty hard not to come off second best on a blog where the adversarial fool has editing rights and doesn’t publish all comments.
    “So Vietnamese had a higher incarceration rate between 1993 and 1998 in Victoria, along with seven other ethnic groups? How this proves that the migration of 137,000 was somehow a disaster is beyond me. Perhaps you can explain”
    Firstly, once again you find information in the posts of others that simply does not exist. You have indicated that the influx of Viets was handled well. I indicated that there were shortcomings and indicated that checks and balances to ensure that refugees are likely to join our society without detrimental influences. Hence my link to the crime stats. Your figures for the numbers of Vietnamese immigrants seem at odds with the 150,000 or so I have read of, but aside from that figures indicate that the propensity of the Vietnamese to look to crime as a means of survival are higher than most nationalities accepted as immigrants.

    “There is evidence of some bias against minority groups in their contacts
    with criminal justice system. For example, in decisions such as caution or
    prosecution, social background factors, particularly family stability, play a
    very important role. Suspects from minority groups often come from
    “unstable” families, making a caution decision difficult. This situation can
    influence decisions at subsequent stages of the criminal justice system”.
    It would appear that there is a higher rate of instabiity in the backgrounds of some minority groups, as noted above. That is precisely why when they come before the justice system the same rules apply in the decisions made on the penalties applied. It is not bias against minority groups as such, it actually means that when the same rules are applied in deciding penalties, some minorities have a greater a propensity for criminal activity, whether it be caused by necessity or by choice. This results in repeat offenders and subsequently incarceration.
    “BTW – Thanks for endorsing my blog”
    Any time, just like rugby players and actors, you are a source of entertainment not to be taken too seriously.

  • Much of the CBD is already linked.

    The problem is you’re a compulsive liar who constantly exaggerates the truth.

    You can prove me wrong right now by linking to just one NBN plan by any ISP providing a fibre connection anywhere in the Toowoomba CBD.

    Can’t do it? Then you’re full of shit again.

  • My original statement – “Toowoomba has fast internet through NBN” is true.
    Nowhere did I say that it was fibre.
    “a compulsive liar who constantly exaggerates the truth”
    Suggest you take a deep breath and analyse the statement “exaggerate the truth”.
    Truth is an absolute – it can’t be exaggerated or diminished. You’ve caught Tony Abbott’s disease.
    My statement – “The rollout is well underway as indicated above” is also the truth.
    As is – “Much of the CBD is already linked”. The cabling is done – the service may not be available yet – proving and testing has been going on for a while now. Tell me where I said a fibre service was up and running.
    That was your attempt at manipulation.
    The local rag covers it pretty well –
    Your definition of a liar is obviously someone who tells you something you don’t want to hear.

    • at risk of raining on your parade phone number, that article says “will be connected”, not “are connected now”. it seems that, yet again, you are not telling the truth.

      In fact, having just looked at the NBN co rollout map for Toowoomba, I’d have to say that you are simply lying – the CBD is NOT linked. perhaps reality is just a bit too challenging for you.

  • You’d make a good politician or defence lawyer. Or more likely a used car salesman.

  • “you are not telling the truth”
    More manipulation. You can’t tell the difference between “linked” and “connected”.
    You – like your mate – wouldn’t recognise the truth if it jumped up and bit you on the bum.

    • Linked in the computer networking context means that you have a functioning network connection, not that you have inactive aka ‘dark’ fibre running to your premises.

      Re your spinning about fibre, according to NBN co fibre is what they are getting, so if you are talking NBN in Toowoomba, that’s it.

      Google can be your friend, use it and you won’t look like such a colossal fool.

      We all know you are a liar phone number, you get caught doing it time and time again, just once either tell the truth in the first place or be enough of a man to admit you lied and got caught.

  • “you get caught doing”
    What I get caught doing is telling you what you don’t want to hear.
    Sorry bout that…………

    • How 7 year old of you.

      Of course I don’t expect any better from you, particularly when, yet again, the facts are not on your side.

      As everyone (including I suspect, you) knows, you can’t help yourself, you just lie, then you get caught and you bluster.

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